HONDA TL 250 Bials 1975 Project

Part 5: Finishing

August 2006 now. Time goes by...What happened since last September ?

On October 2005, I was competing at Clubtrial one class lower than usual, and almost won. Still without silencer, the beast had tremendous power at revs, but did not so well at low revs.

I ordered from Sammy Millers a swan neck and a silencer for the TL 125. I cut the original exit tube after the first silencer by 2 cm, sealed it with a thin silicon tub and I also had to bend the neck a bit, plus drill a new hole for the silencer holder, but  finally it fitted.

TL 125 silencer and swanneck from Sammy Miller	a small part of the silicon tube is seen

What about the sound ? click here for a mpeg (600kb clip)

I  went with my friend Ueli to the AFATA trial de Luxeuil on a cold weekend in January 2006. It was frozen in the morning and our bikes were in the bus over night. Would they start ? Yes, my Honda started after 2 kicks, but not the TY250, but that's another story Trial de Luxeuil. The Honda was big fun, especially the engine was very powerful and the silencer great. The front suspension was very hard, so I could not ride too quickly between the sections. I also had always to fold the foot peg before kicking, due to a XL kicker. After 2 rounds, the engine had a strange noise, but I didn't know what it was. I finished in the masterclass and at home I learnded, that I was 3rd. Not bad for the first trial.

On my 5th bidding, I won a TL kicker for 100$ on ebay (my limit was at 120$). Before, they went til 200$.. Must be rare and no more folding the peg made it worth. Would it pass my bigger Gas Gas pegs ? Yes. Great !

I also won a chain tensioneer at ebay, as the Sammy Miller one had a very hard spring and only 1mm between the frame to move.

Markus, a former schoolfriend of mine and former honda mechanician, came along one evening and controlled the valve clearance and spanned the cam chain.

I tried again in May 2006 , but the engine sounded noisier than last year, like a klapping. The valves ? not possible. So I checked again at home and found the problem: To tension the cam chain, you have to loosen a screw and then thighten it again, when the piston is at it OT. But I could not thighten it properly, the screw turned endless...Big, big problem...As there was also little oil dripping out of the clutch, having caused to loose my rubber cap, I had to open the engine. I took out the cam chain tensioneer srew, cleaned the iron and carefully drilled it in again. It held. But how long ?

I decided to attend the AFATA Trial Bellefosse in June. Great Trial in the woods. The TL was fun to ride, the engine pulled like a truckll ! Not like my Bultaco M49 250cc: Once you lost speed, it was over or clutch needed. But this TL engine seemed to go like hell, almost like my new 4 RT ! The Trial was too easy and you had to concentrate not to loose points. George Graziani won with 7 points on a Honda TLR 250. I was 3rd with 11 points,  not bad for my 100kg Sumo bike !

At www.davidsilverspares.co.uk I ordered a cam chain, a tensioneer, 2 gliders and a cam sprocket. From ebay I got new aftermarket oil seal and seal kit. I took out the engine and brought it to Remo Taiana from Honda Taiana in Zurich (he was once a world trials champion with 14 years on bicycle and is still a good motorbike trick rider at club trials...). Remo did a great job and replaced everything plus grinded the valves.

Before mounting the engine in the frame, I put it on a balance: 40 kg ! I remember my Montesa Cota 349 engine form 1983 was about 35 kg. So not so bad, but then the rest must be 60 kg.

I competed than at the beautiful Trial de Nans in July 2006, where I won the master class ahead of a TLR 200 special. There where some nasty hills to climb, but it was peanuts for my thumper. Give me hills !

Here an overview of my Honda TL 250 project:

Foto January 2006 (will update soon)

Frame: Was powder coated in red by former owner. Many parts where bromatised by him, like the skid plate and the brake lever.
             was not ridden at many trials, as the tubes under the engine and the skid plate look new  

Exhaust: Silencer and swan neck form Sammy Miller (original was lost), front freed from outer rust and sprayed black

Back wheel: New spikes and nipples made on order by Orlando Calonder, fitted by myself, new Michelin tubless tire with tube.
                      Due to the enormous torque, I have to deflate the tube each second trial and turn it again. The 2 tire holders can
                      not hold the Michelin... New brake pads from bjracing.com 

Rear shocks: Soft but progressive, give great riding feeling, Falcons for 280$ at bjracing.com from US. Highly recommendable
                        They are 40cm long instead of 38cm original, so the handling fits more to nowadays narrow sections,
                        maybe not so good for the Scottish Sixdays Trials at Millers time...2 cm more ground clearance, about 30cm now

Red plastic fenders: Bultaco from Orlando Calonder, front fender holder is a TL 125 from Sammy Miller, but had to
                     fit alu distance holders

Side panels: 2mm alu made by myself, first made a paper model

Foot pegs: Hebo (Gas Gas) fitted, but had to scratch some mm, they give great grip and save feeling, foldable

Kicker: Here an XL one, but I have a TL one now

Saddle: From ebay. Is very heavy, over 1 kg, next project to loose some weight

Front fork and yokes: from ebay, as the old yokes were welded and the not straight (road accident ?).
                    Front damping is very hard with thinnest 2.5 oil ??? next thing to improve, but spring is only 22mm width,
                    could not find progressive ones ....any hints welcome

Front wheel: from ebay US, a TL 125, fits perfectly

Picture: January 2006

Gear lever: Beta alu, had to adjuste a bit the distance

Tank: Polished by myself, I like the aluminium, black deco lines not applied, because easier to spray red only after a crash...
                many times cleaned inside and washed, but still some "sand" in the filter...new petcoock filter plus additional filter before
the carb. I tried a 120 main jet (as recommended by Graeme Barden), but went back to 115.

Engine: new side cases form ebay, as the former owner used the Honda for daily commuting in winter time
                         (salt in Switzerland !!! ate in the magnesium...). This side cover: TL is same as XL
                        clutch lever: made longer for 1 finger clutch, no slipping, works fine
                        Engine was rebuilt in 1989, but had to rebuilt again in 2006: fit new cam chain and seal it newly (by Remo Taiana)   

To sum up: I underestimated the time (1 year) and money (almost like a new 4RT) to be spent, as you can hear from each honest restauration project. At the end, you built something and you know each part, where you got it and you are proud about your bike.  The Honda TL 250 is ready to compete now at twinshock and clubtrials. Great engine, very powerfull, big fun to ride. Today at Twinshock trials, the TL 250 is surely among the heavy weights and a 10 year younger TLR 250 is surely easier to ride. But hey, its a challange to ride, it is very rare here in Europe and brings colour to each trial. I love it !

My first trial: AFATA Luxeuil, January 2006,
3rd place National, pic Jean Caillou

In 1975, it was not competitive from the shop against the others. Too heavy.  But with the improved TL 305 from Sammy Miller with his frame, it would have been a great champion. Rob Shepherd was 1977 British Champion on the RTL 305. Pitty, Honda could not sell all the 4000 (or 8000) TL 250 built 1975 & 76 and exported to US. So a real trial model based on Sammy Miller's one came not to serial production.

Sammy Millers Higboy TL 250, (pic from Burce Watts)	Rob Sheperd on RTL 305

Thanks to Doug Hunter, Graeme Barden and Jean Caillou for their e-mails. Due to their comments on this great engine, I decided to realise the project.

If you need some advice or know some improvements on a Honda TL 250 , please mail me: patrick@twnclub.ch

4 August 2006

Part 6: 2007 / 2008